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bazooka's Photo bazooka 18 May 2018

View PostWillikn, on 18 May 2018 - 09:31 AM, said:

The reasons why are immaterial.  Why are the Kardashians famous?  They are idiots aside to the mom.

China loves basketball.  Boxing not as much.  Jordan's popularity in Australia I can't explain.  It is nuts though.

Another fun fact.  Jordan's autograph sells for three times what Ali's does (unless the sig is "Cassius Clay").  That is 100% global supply and demand.  Jordan's auto has an infinite supply since he's still alive.  So.. demand then.
Does any nation really love boxing these days?  BTW....i seem to recall China liking Pac and Zou Shiming.  They would no doubt be all over Ali's nuts.  Muhammad didn't have Nike, sports drinks, etc. all marketing him 24/7.  He marketed himself.   Not sure why you struggle to comprehend these things.   Ali > MJ
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WhenWeWereKings's Photo WhenWeWereKings 18 May 2018

View PostWillikn, on 18 May 2018 - 09:33 AM, said:



The fame is wildly different.  One a corporate creation (although he had a lot do with it).  The other self made.

It doesn't matter how they got there though right?  Only measuring them at their Apex.  

Is there a corner of the world that doesn't know what this is?  Boxers wear this logo and not just US boxers.

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The logo is definitely worldwide. But his face? Not like Aliís.
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Willikn's Photo Willikn 18 May 2018

View PostWhenWeWereKings, on 18 May 2018 - 09:36 AM, said:

The logo is definitely worldwide. But his face? Not like Ali's.

I'm not sure there is a difference.
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WhenWeWereKings's Photo WhenWeWereKings 18 May 2018

 Willikn, on 18 May 2018 - 09:38 AM, said:



I'm not sure there is a difference.
Maybe not. Jordan is a brand, a worldwide one. Canít argue or disput that. But as a person, I donít think heís as recognizable as Ali. Just my two cents.
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bazooka's Photo bazooka 18 May 2018

So...the Greek Goddess of victory is more marketable than Ali.  OK.
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Willikn's Photo Willikn 18 May 2018

View PostWhenWeWereKings, on 18 May 2018 - 09:41 AM, said:

Maybe not. Jordan is a brand, a worldwide one. Can't argue or disput that. But as a person, I don't think he's as recognizable as Ali. Just my two cents.

It  is a viable discussion.  The two are not the same making it very hard to measure.

Ruth is different too, but comparable.  Japan had a parade for him in the 1930's when he arrived to play against a team of Japanese all-stars.  They only knew him from pictures.
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WhenWeWereKings's Photo WhenWeWereKings 18 May 2018

View PostWillikn, on 18 May 2018 - 09:46 AM, said:



It  is a viable discussion.  The two are not the same making it very hard to measure.

Ruth is different too, but comparable.  Japan had a parade for him in the 1930's when he arrived to play against a team of Japanese all-stars.  They only knew him from pictures.
Off topic a bit but how do you think heíd do versus todayís pitchers?
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Willikn's Photo Willikn 18 May 2018

View Postbazooka, on 18 May 2018 - 09:44 AM, said:

So...the Greek Goddess of victory is more marketable than Ali.  OK.

The image is from a picture of Jordan.  Not a Nike Logo.  A postcard sized basketball card believe it or not.


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Willikn's Photo Willikn 18 May 2018

View PostWhenWeWereKings, on 18 May 2018 - 09:47 AM, said:

Off topic a bit but how do you think he'd do versus today's pitchers?

I'd say that's on topic.

Walter Johnson, Christy Mathewson, Lefty Grove, et al.  A long list of serious pitchers.  Dudes throwing every bit of the high 90's.  They were allowed to throw spit balls too.  While the league pulls from a much larger pool than it did 100 years ago, there are a lot more teams too.  More crappy pitchers than was the case in 1920.

There are quite a few dudes that played with Ruth and watched Bo Jackson.  Common parallel.  Buck O'Neil said only two humans ever made that kind of explosive sound with a bat and a ball.  Bo and Ruth.  Buck played against Ruth in barnstorming games.  He played with Josh Gibson.  One of my all time favorite interviews Buck talks of the first time he heard Ruth hit.  Not see, but hear.  Says it was shocking.  Something you can't appreciate unless you heard it.  He went decades explaining it to those who didn't know.  One day at a Kansas City spring training game he heard the sound again.  First time in 50 years.  

Unlike Bo, Ruth was near unhittable himself.  Two times he beat Walter Johnson 1-0 in a World Series game.
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WhenWeWereKings's Photo WhenWeWereKings 18 May 2018

 Willikn, on 18 May 2018 - 09:56 AM, said:



I'd say that's on topic.

Walter Johnson, Christy Mathewson, Lefty Grove, et al.  A long list of serious pitchers.  Dudes throwing every bit of the high 90's.  They were allowed to throw spit balls too.  While the league pulls from a much larger pool than it did 100 years ago, there are a lot more teams too.  More crappy pitchers than was the case in 1920.

There are quite a few dudes that played with Ruth and watched Bo Jackson.  Common parallel.  Buck O'Neil said only two humans ever made that kind of explosive sound with a bat a ball.  Bo and Ruth.  Buck played against Ruth in barnstorming games.  He played with Josh Gibson.

Unlike Bo, Ruth was near unhittable himself.  Two times he beat Walter Johnson 1-0 in a World Series game.
How explosive would the sound be off a smaller and lighter bat?
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Willikn's Photo Willikn 18 May 2018

View PostWhenWeWereKings, on 18 May 2018 - 09:59 AM, said:

How explosive would the sound be off a smaller and lighter bat?

..or using a modern baseball.

My advice would be to watch Ken Burns "Baseball".  Don't have to watch the whole thing but it wouldn't be a waste if you did.  Watch the 20's and 30's.  The video is cool.  Some stuff you've never seen I promise.  More important though is listening to others talk about Ruth.  Arguably the 2nd most interesting player in baseball history also gets covered in these decades.  Satchel Paige.
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El Juan's Photo El Juan 18 May 2018

I was going to mention Satchel Paige as well.

I know this will get hate, but Lebron James is moving up this list. I think heíll go down with all these guys.
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rayajr's Photo rayajr Yesterday, 12:13 AM

 El Juan, on 18 May 2018 - 08:33 PM, said:

I was going to mention Satchel Paige as well.

I know this will get hate, but Lebron James is moving up this list. I think heíll go down with all these guys.
Lebron James?  Never. Not iconic enough.
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