←  The Lounge

Doghouse Boxing - Dog Pound

»

The Offical Nba Basketball Thread

bazooka's Photo bazooka Today, 11:17 AM

View PostWillikn, on 25 April 2018 - 10:54 AM, said:

Like temperature change.  There are shifts over time, over generations, but the shifts come back too.  One change doesn't signify a forever shift.  I could see Ben Simmons hanging 14 pg by next year.  Westbrook's assists are created by his attack.  He isn't a great passer.  Simmons.. that dude is spectacular.  Still really raw too.  I have no idea what his ceiling is.



They are better shooters.  Those three are probably better shooters than any group of three on any one team.  Doesn't make them superior basketball players, or scorers for that matter.  Durant yes, not the other two.
I'll take Curry over Russ.  Curry has won with and without KD.  Russ has not.
Quote

Willikn's Photo Willikn Today, 11:47 AM

View Postbazooka, on 25 April 2018 - 11:17 AM, said:

I'll take Curry over Russ.  Curry has won with and without KD.  Russ has not.

That'd make Curry superior to Harden, Anthony Davis, Giannis, Durant himself.. pretty much anyone not named LeBron James.

Actually, it makes Klay Thompson better than all of those guys too.  Draymond is better than all of those guys.

Rajon Rondo.. better than all of those guys.
Quote

Willikn's Photo Willikn Today, 11:55 AM

I do think Curry would mix better than does Russ with the team Westbrook has now.  This assumes he can ever heal up.  I wonder if he's kind of a Mark Price Kevin Johnson sort that just flames out at 30.  Two years in a row missing a lot of time injuring ankles just playing basketball.
Quote

rayajr's Photo rayajr Today, 12:12 PM

 Willikn, on 25 April 2018 - 11:55 AM, said:

I do think Curry would mix better than does Russ with a the team Westbrook has now.  This assumes he can ever heal up.  I wonder if he's kind of a Mark Price Kevin Johnson sort that just flames out at 30.  Two years in a row missing a lot of time injuring ankles just playing basketball.
I'm hoping the Lakers can get Russ and Lebron next year. I think that would be a good mix for us.  Someone needs to teach Russ how to win championships. I think the Laker organization could do that.
Quote

bazooka's Photo bazooka Today, 12:47 PM

View PostWillikn, on 25 April 2018 - 11:47 AM, said:

That'd make Curry superior to Harden, Anthony Davis, Giannis, Durant himself.. pretty much anyone not named LeBron James.

Actually, it makes Klay Thompson better than all of those guys too.  Draymond is better than all of those guys.

Rajon Rondo.. better than all of those guys.
Rondo sucks.

Curry doesn't have to rate better than all these guys.  I just think he's a proven winner.  Sometimes it doesn't make sense why a guy wins more than others with more perceived talent.
I liken Melo's lack of winning on the NBA level to Barkley...although i think Barkley is was much greater still.  But both were kinda lazy at times and that hurt them.

I think Russ' lack of being a great facilitator hurts him.  Lack of knowing when to score and when to pass, i.e. he makes dumb decisions late in some big games.  Something about the guy despite all the numbers and the talent....he just doesn't win enough.  Eventually one has to call it for what it is.

But onto these comparisons....people always ask Duncan or Karl Malone?  Malone's numbers kill Tim's.  Strictly as a PF and not in a world where we can call Tim a PF but use him mostly as a center...who do you take?  I still like Malone, despite people perceiving Tim as virtually a Mt. Rushmore type of player.  I think Tim is viewed much differently if he played in Karl's era and Karl played in Tim's.  Not having to face MJ is pretty convenient.

Anyways...I like Steph.  I see how the team does with and without him.  It really shouldn't be denied at this point.
Quote

Willikn's Photo Willikn Today, 12:57 PM

View Postbazooka, on 25 April 2018 - 12:47 PM, said:

Rondo sucks.

He doesn't belong in the conversation which is the point.  Just being on a title winning team isn't enough.  Curry was on two.  He wasn't the Finals MVP on either one.


View Postbazooka, on 25 April 2018 - 12:47 PM, said:

Curry doesn't have to rate better than all these guys.  I just think he's a proven winner.  Sometimes it doesn't make sense why a guy wins more than others with more perceived talent.

Sometimes the Champions have better teams.  It isn't because they have the best player.  Curry's teams winning without him being the best player in the Finals speak to that.

Not to disparage.  He's great.  His insane popularity doesn't come out of nowhere.  He is a really fun player to watch.  One of a kind so you see things from him you don't see otherwise.  HOWEVER, I don't think his teams would skip a beat if you replaced him with Russ or Harden.  Even Chris Paul or John Wall.  It would be different.  Just as good I think.
Quote

bazooka's Photo bazooka Today, 01:26 PM

View PostWillikn, on 25 April 2018 - 12:57 PM, said:

He doesn't belong in the conversation which is the point.  Just being on a title winning team isn't enough.  Curry was on two.  He wasn't the Finals MVP on either one.




Sometimes the Champions have better teams.  It isn't because they have the best player.  Curry's teams winning without him being the best player in the Finals speak to that.

Not to disparage.  He's great.  His insane popularity doesn't come out of nowhere.  He is a really fun player to watch.  One of a kind so you see things from him you don't see otherwise.  HOWEVER, I don't think his teams would skip a beat if you replaced him with Russ or Harden.  Even Chris Paul or John Wall.  It would be different.  Just as good I think.
Steph could easily be the MVP in either of those Finals.  We have discussed this. He actually outscored Iggy in almost every game.  Led the team in scoring in what....5 of 6 games?
Steph's performance in last year's Finals was phenominal.  Even better than on the previous title team.  Its not as if he sat around and watch KD carry the team.

I disagree with you on Harden and Russ.  Again....proven vs. unproven.  Harden is a multiple time proven failure in big moments.  Russ too.  At least when someone like MJ was not winning titles, he was still having lots of huge playoff moments, thus proving that he needed more parts around him despite all his heroics.  We're not seeing that from Russ or Harden...yet.
Quote