So when do you define life as starting, then? If a baby is born without legs, it's okay to kill it?

I just want to illustrate the stupidity of the debate. Abortion is fine, adoption is fine, single motherhood is fine. It's just this stupid-ass stigma that is attached to all of them that pisses me off.

Nobody can decide what's right for someone else, and nobody has the right to tell someone that they should feel like shit for not doing what's "right".

I'm not going to get into all the arguments about abortion in the case of rape or incest - they're barely part of the debate. What I mean is - what you do with your life is your own business...and the issue of raising a child vs. having an abortion is deeply personal.

The abstinence only policy is a laugh. And not making birth control readily available to teenagers exacerbates the problem. So don't stick somebody in a cage, act like it's their own fault for being in it, and then lay on the righteous indignation when they try to find a way out of it.

The whole abortion issue is a joke. It is another example where people are for more concerned with getting a political victory than they are effecting real change. If pro lifers were so concerned about the numbers of abortions performed each year they'd get together with planned parent hood and help support "strong" education programs that tell the truth about sex and birth control. Tell teens that they just need to ignore there "no no thoughts" or "take cold showers when you feel dirty" is like telling a crack head o just drink some coffee when they feel the need for a fix. I doesn't work. Our lack of strong sex education is not only contributing to more unwanted pregnancies, which equal more abortions, but std's are out of control.

I find abortion to be rather primitive and outdated. We live in a world where there is birth control, IUD's, Condoms, morning after pills, and diaphragms. Not too mention vasectomies.

SO when there is a little tadpole swimming around in there, you can get rid of it so sayeth joshua clottey.

You start taking out limbs and shit, that gets kinda ugly. A woman has a right to choose? I'm a misogynist, so I don't think women should even DRIVE let alone choose what SHE thinks is right. Women aren't smart enough to know what to do. They need a MAN to tell her what's right and what's wrong.

What if she chooses to drag the baby out with a coat hanger?

Women and their hormones want equal rights, yet they don't meet us half-way. You want to be treated as equals? Then hold up your end.

Pro lifers are against all the above mentioned.

Thank god I am not a pro-lifer.

How stupid are they?

Yes!! Life is a terrible thing and must be destroyed!!

I love the Bill Hicks bit on Abortion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJcebIEOkhY

Oh BS, using that line of reasoning you could attack anybody for anything. The Dems are gona push this lady so hard that she's gonna end up getting a sympathy vote from women who feel she's being attacked just because of gender.

The trooper thing is fair game, the funds from her being a mayor are fair game. But her daughter getting pregnant and husband getting a dui 20 years ago are not.

I think the 1.3 million babies aborted every year would beg to differ on just how funny that "joke" is.

Who told you that?

Too bad they're dead and can't find anything funny.

That is the unfortunate part. But on the bright side, at least we have choice!!!

Not even classic Simpsons?

If you read the rest of the post I explain that it's a joke because the number can reduced and should be reduce but instead everyone is looking for political victory. I want to see zero abortion too! Only I think you get there through education and not by out lawing it. Drugs are illegal too has that stopped drug use?

There have been many attampts to get sex education i schols ramped up to the level of making protection avaiible to teens and it has been shot down again and agian be the pro life realigous groups. Don't play stupid. They claim that it promote sex and will cause teens to have sex.
Education is the fastest road to less abortions, not blowing up hospitals or getting Federalist Society judges planted in the court.

Anyone here seen this movie?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b6h0lsiQcw

You didn't say that. You said all pro-lifers are against any type of birth control, that's not true. As far as that, I have no problem with free birth control for anybody, subsidized by the government. You're changing the subject to whether or not schools should be the first ones to let our kids know about the birds and the bees.

The problem with allowing the schools to do it is that now you are allowing them to take charge of what and when your child finds out about sex. There have been cases of pre-teens being told about homosexuality and orgasm's and all kinds of stuff ( They lampooned the situation in a South Park episode )

Different debate altogether.

Those poor dead bastards.

So how are teens going to learn? Obviuosly parents aren't telling the kids about the birds and the bees because our teen pregnances rates and std rates are higher tan all other western countries - look it up!
So because parents are afraid that there kids might find out that Homosexuals exist we can't teach sex education? I have a question for you, at what age did you realize that you liked girls? Is there any inf0 that someone told you that would've changed that? IMO it is the one of the silliest damn things when people try to imply that exceptance or knowledge gays will somehow spend it. Imagine if we took that approach to drugs and under age drinking.

He still hasn't learned this

Nonsense. I didn't say anything about "kids shouldn't learn about gays". It's just not the schools responsibility to teach my kid about sex in any form outside of Biology. Do you really think that teaching kids about this stuff will help pregnancy rates? Do 17 year old girls really not know how pregnancy happens?

They can't even teach kids to read and write, so how can I trust them with sex-ed?

It does in Canada, England, France, German, etc, etc, etc.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Got 1 kid, and 1 on the way. I be knowin' about girls. I got loin fruit and shit.

I blame liberal attitudes towards drugs and alcohol and the media turning kids into sexual objects. Teenage girls nowadays are straight up whores compared to 20 or 30 years ago. It's all they see on TV, hell even Hannah Montana has n-ude pics out.

If you want sex ed then fine. Have some type of structured course that is the same everywhere and I'm fine with it. No teaching how to have better orgasms or give better BJ's or how to do anal. But I don't have faith in the school system to even teach kids to read and write these days.

I wouldn't be using the Uk as an example here, we've got the highest teen preggers rate in all of Europe.



This was also quite interesting: http://www.beststart.org/events/detail/bsa...s/PC1_mckay.pdf

Still better than us here in the USA.

That is simply not true. Teen pregnancy is actually down since the 70's and 80's. The spread of STD's has slowed too.

Teenagers have sex and always have. 50 yrs ago people got married at 16, that was normal. There was never a time in the history of this planet when Teens were all pure. Sure, sex after marrige was more closely followed at variuos points in history, but as I pointed out people were getting married at 16 yrs old. So the sex was still happening at the same age.

Things have changed a lot since those days. People were forced to grow up a lot quicker in those days. Now kids can be kids well into their 20s....for better or for worse.
I definitely think that on average more teens are having sex these days though. STD and pregnancy numbers have probably decreased because safer sex is being practiced.

Do you know why it went down in the 70's? Abortion was legal. As the abortion rate goes up, the preg rates go down.

What HAS gone up is children born out of marriages. That is the stat that is screwing us up.

Puberty is puberty. When teens hit a certian point there drive becomes more active. We can blame the media all we want but it comes down to our biology. Other than a "feeling" you have you can't find any inf0 that proves more teens have sex today than 20-30 yrs ago.

As I pointed out on the Drug thread, making something illegal doesn't it from happening. Many women were having abortions before the 70's.

Teens and adluts have sex because of there biology! It is very simple. That is why I have male parts and my wife has female parts. Sex isn't about Hillary Duff videos. You act as if before the invention of T.V. everyone was a virgin till they were yrs old. That isn't true. It is puberty and chemicals in your brain that make people want to have sex, not MTV.

As far as STD's, they've gone down for white females ( 20% of teens ), but have ravaged the black community ( 48% of teen females ).

The rate of growth is down across the board. That is what I said, that they are spending slower.

More than 50% of B/F's had STD's in the 90's???

IF you believe that life begins at conception then that is YOUR belief.

I think that life begins when it can it breath on it's own.

Liked you better when you were crazy...

When do you believe life begins?

When it can? Some babies have survived after less than 4 months...Hell, i think some babies actually survive abortions. Cool to kill them?

Is it ok to murder a baby that is born unable to breathe on its own? That's very common among premies.

So? You probably can't come up with more than an opinion to counter it either.

Well when it's a tadpole you can get rid of it.

I think they have some kind of pill you can take that gets rid of the baby. They don't go in with knives and utensils like an abortion.

Women are not smart enough to make the decision themselves.

Besides, women nowadays CHOOSE to get pregnant. They can take birth control, or some kind of patch or morning after pills. So if any woman that becomes pregnant and is over the age of 17, TRAPS their boyfriend or becomes DRUNK OFF OF HORMONES, that they think having a baby will be fun. These women TRAP The men into fatherhood. They are evil temptresses that cannot be trusted. Males need to keep their guard up and pull out and money shot on their stomach. It is the responsibility of the parents to educate their children to be intelligent, responsible, aware individuals. It is not up to the American taxpayer, it is the responsibility of the parents.

If not, educate your kids to freeze their sperm and get vasectomies(if wanted, not forced)

I mean it's not that crazy when you think about it. Teach your kids about penile ballooning so that they will be able to last longer and not premature ejaculate. It's not crazy when you live in a society that thinks that chopping off the part of the penis is ok and neccessary. So, it should not be taken heavily when a young man decides to snip the fibris tissue so he shoots blanks, besides, the thing about vasectomies is that you can reverse them! And not only that, frozen sperm lasts indefinitely!

So the parents need to educate their kids about these things. The problem is, who will educate the parents to educate the kids? Well I guess teachers and doctors can volunteer to teach FREE seminars Titled "safe sex and how to teach it to your kids". There they will teach stupid parents what I have typed and MORE! Then the parents come home prepared and matured, and teach their kids what they've learned. That way EVERYONE is keen to it.

They can promote these FREE seminars at your place of work, newspaper, myspace Etc.

I think this is a great idea.

40?

Hey...Retards. Free will.

Deal with it.

I was wondering who would be the first with that pun.

What part of the word "growth" do you not understand? It is spreading slower! That doesn't mean there is a lesser total number.

I've already pointed out that pregnancies for teens are down.
This link has some great ino for you. You'll see that between 1980 and 1992 the number of teens that reported having sex went down, the total number of pregnancy was stable, and abortions were down. All numbers are even lower today than in 1992.
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/2911597.html

you one of them serious woman haters?

What do you think of my idea? Pretty sweet huh?

Abortion is SO 1970. Today all you need to do is take a pill and be done with it all.

It would have been sweeter if your mom cut out her uterus before that crusty old homeless guy got her preggers with you, fuckin tool.

You are such a retard. That pill you speak of is great right? I mean, a fetus would MUCH rather be slowly poisoned to death over the course of 2 weeks than killed in minutes, right?

Women are temptresses that cant be trusted? What about rape victims?

What about the inverse which is dipshit men who don't wear rubbers and then bail when the P-bomb is dropped?